In this episode of Talking Law, we have an episode for you that comes from our sister podcast, The Deal Room. This is actually part three of a three-part series with Matt Alderton from BX Networking. We decided to play this episode on Talking Law because it provides such great insights for business owners on Matt’s learnings on buying, starting, growing and exiting from 6 businesses – which ended in the sale of his last business for $16m to a listed entity. It also provides great insight into a topic that is not discussed anywhere near as often as it should be – the importance of failure, how to protect yourself from failure, and how to view failure in a business. We also have a rapid-fire question session with him, where we compare owning a franchise to other types of businesses, the best approach to employee retention, ways to maximise value in a business, and so much more.
Episode Highlights:
- Matt’s business, BX Networking
- Sample business setbacks and how to deal with them
- What Matt is doing in his business now, that echoes the lessons he learned
- Creating value at exit
- The difference between a big buyer and a smaller buyer
- The importance of bringing the right people onto the team and looking after them
Connect with Matt Alderton:
Relevant Episodes:
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Transcript below!
Note: This has been automatically transcribed so will be full of errors! We are not providing it to you as a word-perfect version of the podcast but just as an easy way to provide you with a different way to be able to scan for information that might be relevant to you.
Joanna:
Hi, Matt, so good to have you on the show. Again, today. I had so much fun talking about the last two episodes. And now today is sort of where we round it all out to talk about where you are now. But huge thank you for coming on to the show again today.
Matt:
Great to be back. Thanks, Joanna.
Joanna:
And now look, what an amazing story you’ve given us over the last two episodes, there have been so many businesses and so many learnings there. You know, has it all been a piece of cake this whole? This whole business history?
Matt:
I guess you know, you don’t have the wins if you haven’t had a few knockdowns. You know, the best lessons come from our setbacks and adversity, I think you can only achieve some success through just sheer luck. When you have some setbacks and knockbacks you certainly learn a lot. And that’s gonna set you up for success in the future. In fact, probably very early on, I had my biggest challenge. I’m not sure why I’m smiling. Maybe I’ve evolved, I’ve learned a little bit from it. But one of my biggest challenges that I face, and it was a huge challenge is that my very first business partner and a number of different retail businesses that I had actually taken us for about three quarters million bucks, actually about half a million bucks. And ended up being a debt that was owed to the ATO for Super and taxes and stuff like that, which left us with about a hole about three-quarters of million bucks, was owed. Unfortunately, his business partner went bankrupt. And all this was stuff, there was no recourse for any of that. And it left us in a situation where we really just had to either pay it back or declare bankruptcy ourselves. So it was pretty, it was pretty, you know, the challenge was about 12 years ago and 1213 years ago, and it was pretty soul searching kind of time because you know, we were already on track with a number of businesses, we were winning in the businesses. But we didn’t know that the money that should be paying US taxes was actually going to propping up other businesses and that as well. So it’s pretty, pretty tough times and I said in the last podcast that the people that you surround yourself with will make or break your organization. And the two I think most important sources of support you can have in your company, going to be your legal advice your lawyer and also your accountant my accountant and I’ve had a few different accountants over time
Matt:
bar the last one and the one before that has let me down so I’ve had five accountants three have been a shocker. And then I had the next one I had was amazing. And then they worked out there was a conflict of interest with another client in relation to another business that I was selling and they had to let me go which was a pretty devastating element. And then what I’ve got now is phenomenal which has been amazing I’ve had them now for about six years. But my first view you know evolved through time with your support around you but my accountant at the time missed all the cues of the stuff that wasn’t happening from a compliance point of view. And we got about two years’ worth of tax and super, that had been not being paid or been taken and not paid. And it left us with an enormous hole. And the next piece of advice I had was from my second accountant, which then, so when all that happened, I flicked that accountant. And I found a new accountant who was going to help me through this. And this accountant said, Well, the best way to move forward is to get rid of the debt, if you want to keep the businesses get rid of the debt. So I think you should sell your house. And so probably the worst piece of financial advice I’ve ever been given in my whole entire life. Because the one thing that everybody should know is that when you go into business, and you set up a company, and it’s a Proprietary Limited Company, you’re putting a barrier basically between your personal assets and your business. And what my accountant then did is take out all of my personal assets, my equity in my home, by selling my home, to pay off business debt, and so left me with nothing from a personal perspective. And that was the decade of a hole that left us in because now we’re we don’t have any equity there. We’re trying to build businesses and repay debt and cashflow the debts without the equity of your home. So crazy decision and advice that he gave us. So the advice that you get from your legal team, and your accounting team is just so pivotal in the success or not that you’re going to have in your business. And really that that that bad advice that we got. And we’ve got, you know, I take responsibility for a lot of it as well, because you know, who, who brought on the accountants who were working with the accountants who had, who was dealing with the partner who was trusting in the partner, of course, that was me. And it’s taken me 10 years to, you know, to wear that hat of responsibility, because it was a lot of working through on my part, but it is, you know, you trust too easily in the people around you. And that’s probably the number one learning that I got out of that, you know, don’t trust, I give trust very freely. And I think that’s, I think it’s important, but you can’t get blind trust. And when there’s money involved, you kind of have to make sure there are checks and balances on everything that happens. Because it keeps people who may not have the best of intentions or keeps them in check. And so what needs to happen is in one of the organizations, and we talked about, you know, just having great shareholders agreements, when there’s a great level of understanding about what’s going to happen, and how it’s going to happen, and what happens in relation to how we do things, then stuff doesn’t get all blurry. And I guess I let things get a little blurry because I just trusted blindly that this guy was looking after the accounts, the payroll and all that financial side of the business because I was taking care of the front end of those businesses as well. So that’s probably the biggest hurdle that I’ve faced. And you know, took us a decade to get through it. But pretty challenging times. Yeah.
Joanna:
But I said this in our last episode, and I’ll repeat it now because I truly believe in it. Every successful business owner, I know has been through trials and tribulations, things that haven’t worked, and usually, there’ll be at least one quite serious event. And, you know, this is what makes great businesses, ultimately, the experience from the coalface you know, and I’m talking about the entrepreneur experience, because, you know, it’s potentially different in corporate land, where there’s less on the line for, you know, for individuals in management, who are employed, rather than it be their own cash that they’re dealing with. But in the entrepreneurship world, there are a lot of risks. There really is and, you know, entrepreneurs are not a good personality type to recognize risk, ultimately, the end because it’s, it’s, it’s that optimism, it’s that insight into the future without being, you know, sort of held back by fear. But what that means is you need the right strength in the team around you, but also in the check systems imbalances. And it’s always about delegation, not abdication. And being close to the figures and making sure you understand the systems and processes to protect yourself, even though that can run against the grain of who entrepreneurs are, and what makes them successful, ultimately.
Matt:
that’s true. I remember. So Mark Bouris said that when he was negotiating with Kerry Packer for wizard home loans, and things like a $60 million sale, when Carrie was buying into Wizard Home loans, and Mark is doing the due diligence process with him and he’s sitting in his office and Kerry is grilling him. And Kerry says Mark, talk to me about your failures, what’s gone wrong and marks like a quarter. But I want to talk about this. And he says, I want to know what failures you had and Mark’s like, don’t tell him anything, I want to only tell him the good stuff. And he’s and so he pushed him. And he said, Mark, if you haven’t failed, then I don’t know that you can fail. And a business owner who can’t fail and stand back up after it and rebuild off the back of that failure is not someone I want to go into business with. And I heard that about five years ago from Mark. And I thought, ah, that is so true, because it’s not, it’s not getting knocked down. It’s what you learn. And it’s about being able to get back up from that and be able to move on with the lessons that you get from that, to give you the resilience to keep moving forward in business. And when I heard that, I thought it was so pivotal, such a key moment for me that I wasn’t as embarrassed about what had happened. I was kind of like, I used to hold it so close to me and, and not share it. And the more I’ve shared that story, the more people that have said, Ah, thank you for sharing that, because I’m going through this and to know that maybe I’ll get through it I can get through it has meant a lot. And I’ve heard that like, probably 100 times over since I’ve started sharing that story. And I used to not want to share it because I was kind of embarrassed about the failure, about the challenge about the adversity that we’ve faced. So it’s really interesting to be able to reflect back now obviously, it’s easy to reflect back than it is when you’re in the pit of misery at the moment.
Joanna:
Exactly. In the emotion of the moment. But look, absolutely, of course, because I’m a lawyer, I see business owners at that point quite regularly, you know, and I understand how regular it is. But you’re absolutely right. This is the one thing that in many instances is just not talked about, because success is lauded, perhaps more than the concept of, you know, discussing our failures. So and you know, not failures, learnings really, but every you know, I love talking to people, I love the stories of our business owners that exit. And you know, our business owners who’ve been in business for 40 years, which so many of them have you know, it’s 30, even 40 years, 50 years, sometimes before they sell, I promise you I’ve not had a single discussion with business owners who’ve been in business that long, where they do not have a critical story like that. So there you go, man, you’re not on your own. But it’s a good point about sharing it. And so let’s talk about what we talked about, we’ve talked about so many things, so many learnings in business, we start talk started right at the beginning, with your experience in the smaller types of organizations. So in franchising, so you’re in subways, in video stores, I love that video stores are a relic from the past,
Matt:
Probably one of my favourite businesses is the video stores.
Joanna:
They are uber cool now, but you know, perhaps not a lot of money to be made out of it. And, and then you move into IWS, when you really you sort of grew this business to the point where you realized it didn’t need you to be the person running it anymore. And then you managed to get a capital raise, and ultimately an exit to a public company. So huge history is and this brings you to be x now. So what, what, what is the crystallization of all of these things that you’ve learned along the way? What are you doing in your business now, that echoes the lessons that you’ve learned along the way from the successes and the things that you felt were failures at the time?
Matt:
Yeah, thanks. So it was, it’s really interesting because that’s exactly why b x was created, I experienced so much I’d gone through some challenges and success. And I looked at the failure rate of businesses in Australia. And it was so the failure is so high, like 96% of businesses, 96% of businesses will fail within 10 years, not 50% within 12 months, 18%. Within five years. I’m like this is crazy, like all these people who are passionate, enthusiastic entrepreneurs who have got this vision to change the world, or change their local area, whatever it is, and they’re destined for failure. I thought this was nuts. How can we change this? How can I bring together my experience? Plus source? These four percenters who have had success? And who are running amazing businesses and who wants to share their expertise? How can I bring them to a place where I can get them to share that with clients and people? So I created BX firstly, as a 12-month entrepreneurial education program where they joined us for 12 months we would bring these experts in and we would train them through workshops and all sorts of stuff. And so that’s what I created this business to do that and we were probably about 18 months in two years in through 2014, ’15-, ’16. And Every time we brought people together, the feedback we always got was I’d love more networking, I’d love more networking. And part of growing BX, I was part of every networking organization don’t man, I was going to everything. I was like a networking junkie. And I was everywhere. So I actually I built quite a reputation. I used to just, I used to go to you can only get one chapter, I was going to all the chapters as guests all the time as a member of one ganache. Every chapter, I was a member of a number of different organizations across Australia, we didn’t have much networking, back then I used to go to the chambers of commerce. So dang much, I understood the value of networking and building a community around you. But every one of my clients was also saying, we need more networking as part of what we do with BX.
Matt:
I then was like, introduced to networking breakfast as part of the bigger events in the workshops and stuff we were doing. But then there was an organization in Sydney called the Real Beers it was really brand-like it was kind of have been doing a great project during that over probably the past 12 months, it was kind of dropping off. They’ve rebranded and done a few things. And it hadn’t. It was it’s not getting much traction. And but I was part of it. And I loved it. They had a great philosophy. And they said, Matt, were selling our organization with a heap of groups in Sydney. And they said, Would you be interested in buying it? I’m like, No, thank you like I’ve got enough, I’m doing I’m focused on VX, like, I’m not interested in doing a networking thing as well. You know, we kept talking about this company kept having these conversations, and they’re like, we really don’t want to close it, we actually, you know, we’ve lost our passion for the business, we don’t want to close it. We really want to sell it but we’re you know, we don’t know who to sell it to continue the legacy of what we started. And they kind of got to like 290 members at the peak, it was down to about 70 Was 76 members when we did take it on. So we did buy the business because I thought to myself, actually, this could be a really good sales funnel, and marketing funnel for BX, all these business owners networking breakfast everywhere, hey, well, we’ll use those as the funnel for our education program. And what soon happened over about 12 months from 2016, September 2016, when we bought it to sort of over the next 12 months over 2017, the size of that business that we grew just in Sydney, and Canberra, well, New South Wales in Canberra, the size of that outgrew the other side of the business, we just took this trajectory because I know that members were doing both. And I still joke about this because we used to charge 1000 bucks a month for this education program, this 12-month program. So 12 grand a year, or now well now we have BX which is 100 bucks a month. So 1200 bucks a year. So it’s a 10th of the price. But all the education that we had in that original model is still available in BX. So it’s a 10th of the price that used to be, but it’s a lot easier in terms of business because we’re able to do that to many. And my personal goal was I want to help more people. And this allowed us to do that and allow us to help them do that without being so much about me and being about you know, one too many, and really being able to get across somebody run, you know, 1000s of events, I’m a very, very few of them. Whereas before, it was all relying on me being in all these events to be that that one person to run all the workshops, even when I bought speakers, you know, had to beat the events to coordinate them and lots of stuff. You know, the sales side, it was very much upon me, I realized that the scalability and long-term growth of BX were not going to be in the old model, it had to be in the new model because I could help a lot more people by scaling it. And I couldn’t scale it using the old model because I was really the cap on that. And so now we have instead of having a couple of events a year with 1000s of people and some workshops, now we have 1000s of events every year with you know, 20 or 30 people all over Australia, New Zealand, US, Canada, in September, we kick off and things like that. So like that, to me, that’s helping me live out my purpose, as opposed to me being the lid on my ability to hit that purpose as well. That’s kind of where Beck’s has grown from. So that’s pretty exciting. What it’s worth ended up being, and it was kind of like I fell into it, you know, but at the end of the day, who were the best people to listen to, to deliver a product to customers, to customers, right? And what was what my customers asking for. They love what they had would be x but they would have more of this. And so we gave them what they asked for and we’ll feed a hungry crowd and when you feed a hungry crowd, people flock to it, don’t they? It’s like, you know, throwing chips out of the beach. When you’ve got the right food and you’ve got the right audience you all you’re swarmed and that’s what’s happened. It’s the groundswell of through BX it’s just taking you to know, Australia by storm In the world by storm, and that sounds crazy when I say I sound silly when I say but like, that’s what’s happening. It’s crazy, that we’re that we’ve, you know, we’re throwing the chips out and, and people are just flocking to it because it is such a unique way of doing it. And we have reimagined networking in a significant way because it used to be so transactional networking was always about selling. Even, it evolved a little bit and became about partnerships. And they were saying, you know, can we do a networking room, instead of selling that person, ask them if they know someone that you can sell to? Well, no one wants to tell you and provide the name of someone that you’re going to sell to, because that kind of burns your contacts pretty quickly. So only works when you know someone who says, Hey, I’m looking for a mortgage broker, and you go, Oh, I know mortgage broker, but that’s pretty hit and miss. And so we know the number one way for people to get new clients as referrals, there has to be a system around that, and no one had a system for it, no one had a way to strategically drive referrals into their business. And that’s what we created with BX, so you flip the whole model on its head, we were about partnerships, and finding partnerships outside the room with other business owners who had all the same types of clients as you, those businesses didn’t compete with you. Therefore, you were able to share your clients with each other on a referral basis, which is organic, you know, when the business coach and the account have a good referral partnership, every time the business coach gets in front of one of their clients, they’re asking them questions, if anything, accounting comes up, or there are no pains in relation to the current accounting, who are they sending those clients to, to their accountant referral partner, and vice versa. And that’s, that’s the power of it. And we were able to attribute about 20k per year per referral partner, for our clients from all the case studies and learnings we have. So we help people build five to 10, great referral partners a year that generate six figures plus off this particular pillar of marketing that we’ve lined them up with. And it’s amazing. And we’ve just, it just seems to be so well received and so well adopted by our members and people coming along. And it’s great, lets me live out my purpose. At the same time. It’s helping people build great businesses.
Joanna:
We have lots of Business Brokers, lots of accountants, and lots of professionals that assess businesses in buying and selling and that have been listening to this. So I’m sure you know, jump into a BX. near you, we’ll put some links in the show notes and try it out for yourself. But in building BX Matt, at right now. So you’re in the growth phase right now? What is it that? How are you growing the business different? Now, given your knowledge of what creates value at the exit to the way that you have grown your other businesses? Or indeed the way you may have grown it? If you didn’t have the knowledge in their hive about exit?
Matt:
There are about three key things. So the first one is profit as an important element of building the business. The second one is the people that I’m surrounding myself with and building the business and then the culture of the organization is probably the third element that is probably the three key things that I’m constantly thinking about in building the business. Because like, I’m not building BX to sell it. Because I’d have sold a mine now. But you always have to have an exit strategy. And I don’t believe that unnecessary we will sell the business. I believe that b x will be, you know, a business that continues to grow. And but I don’t see myself as that person running that business into the future. Forever. I’ll probably have a seat at the table I hope for a very long time I think we touched on this in the first episode. But an international organization running, you know, multiple operations across multiple countries is something I’ve never done before. So am I the best person to be running an organization across multiple countries, and I’d be the first person to go – Probably not. Right now where we’re going, we’re starting up and we’ve and I’ve got the capacity. And I’ve got a great team around me and I’m bringing great people on around me. So I’m building the people around me. That’s possible to do. But there’s a point in time where I need to make a conscious decision that my capacity as the CEO, the leader of the organization, is not going to be the best person to have in that role. And likewise, when we put and surround ourselves with amazing people like I’ve just hired an absolutely phenomenal Operations Manager for the US. You know, we’ve got an amazing Operations Manager in Australia. We’ve got phenomenal team support around us from marketing and finance and office management in Australia as well. Like they’re all key people, but another key person is yourself and having a clear understanding of what your capability is. And whether you’re in the right seat is also a fundamental question you need to continually ask yourself And I do challenge myself with it, I know that I am the right person right now for where we’re at, I am the right person in this role. But I know that there’s a plan in place when at some point, we’re going to be recruiting for CEO to run an international organization, which will be, you know, big-ticket employment costs, like they’re not going to come cheap. But they’re going to come into place and time in the organization when we’re ready for and when we need it. And where that benefit is going to outstrip the benefit that I can have on the organization as well. Because at some time, at some point in time, we’re just not the best person in our role. You know, it’s a company as simple as you could be the standalone person, your business right now, you can be running everything, which means you’re wearing, you know, the CEO hat, the founder hat, the HR hat, the finance manager hat, the marketing hat, you’re a jack of all trades, right? And right now, you can’t afford to put all those people in place. And that would make sense, and you’re wearing all those hats. But at some point, you need to make good decisions about when you bring someone on to take on those responsibilities because you can’t keep growing while doing everything. And the same happens when you need to go well, actually, I’m not the right person to be where I am now I need to step aside and bring someone into the organization to run that. And that is we talked about the last time it’s a hard decision because it’s, you know, there’s ego tied up in it. And I say that freely, because everyone has an ego, whether you think you do or you think you’re doing when you recognize it. You know you do when you don’t recognize it, you still have it? And you probably have it worse.
Joanna:
Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say it’s probably a giveaway.
Matt:
yeah, yeah. And it’s really important to recognize that, and I mentioned this before, that, you know, Tony Robbins talks about the seven human needs, and one of them is significant. And a lot of significance is tied up in our position, whether it’s our position in our company, or whatever, but it’s about and often its title is so key for people as well. And you might not think it, or you might be embarrassed to admit it. But there’s, there’s a real significance factor that people feel by the title they give themselves or the title they have in the company they work for. And it’s important to recognize that with your people as well, because, you know, that plays an important part in what they’re going to deliver to your company. But just like having it take me in a way also can also have a challenging effect on people as well. And the time and the place.
Joanna:
I just want to throw in it’s a really good point because that whole taking away you know, I see founders sometimes sell out and as part of, you know, the sell-out they end up as part of the deal staying engaged with the business post-sale for a period of time sometimes in an urn out sometimes not. So often I just find business owners struggle more than they realize they would go into with a concept that they don’t rather show anymore. And we’ve talked about that a little bit in terms of you know, your previous experience and you’ve probably you know, I guess this time around when you appoint someone you’ll know exactly what it feels like to have walked the path and you know, you’re walking into it with your eyes wide open and that’s all you can ask. I think it’s walking into these things with your eyes wide open. But now before we go I just want to throw some rapid-fire questions, so we’ve got four minutes whole heap of things I want to get through. So I’ve got a few questions for you. So let’s start the rapid timer now. Okay, so we’ve talked about a few things franchise or non Franchise Business what’s your preference?
Matt:
The first business franchise you’ll learn so much of being a part of a franchise people have had success and done it before so turnkey operation, definitely franchises
Joanna:
I love it. I love it. So starting a franchise is the idea. Great idea. Wonderful. Okay, greenfield site or by business start from scratch by
Matt:
depends on how much money you got, you’re gonna pay to get a site that’s already set up and running. Or if you’re gonna go brand new site, a greenfield site, then it’s going to be cheaper to start, but there’s more risk because you don’t know what success you’re going to have. So there’s a risk versus reward on both those ones. So you got to really weigh up your options.
Joanna:
Which was most successful for you Matt. For me,
Matt:
the greenfields were actually more successful. Yeah, yeah.
Joanna:
Okay. All right. Interesting. That’s a really interesting one. Okay, so looking at a sale preferred buyer, given all of your experiences, big buyer or a smaller buyer, which have been your best experience?
Matt:
Oh my goodness. The smaller buyers are actually I think harder sometimes to work with, the bigger the corporation you’re dealing with, the bigger the business that’s negotiating, often you feel like referred to There’s a rectal exam. I talked about it with that
Joanna:
Interesting analogy.
Matt:
you can visualize that, actually don’t visualize that but I think it’s very process-driven was a smaller buyer is emotionally driven. And that I think, can be really tough because they push, push, push, and it’s like they’re, they’re picking it a swirling kind of thing, right? It’s very emotional. Whereas the bigger buyers it’s like a process it’s actually very clinical. And that’s the big difference between big and small. I prefer to work actually more clinically than somebody who’s emotionally attacking you all the time
Joanna:
and potentially with higher multiple. The best approach to staff retention?
Matt:
to be honest, this is probably a bit controversial but I just say love your team I think that that you shouldn’t have boundaries between.. well you know obviously have the obvious boundaries but I think that my best team I have great relationships with so I know their family, we go for dinner we connect, we have relationships with and I think sometimes people think that you know you’re going to have boundaries with your team. Well, I say break down the bad boundaries with your team and you know, wants you to care for them really, at the end of the day. They want to have that relationship with you and they feel valued when they’ve got that relationship with you. So that’s my number one key to having and keeping a good team is to build the relationship.
Joanna:
Love it. Okay, 30 seconds to go to questions. Can we do it? The best thing you have done in your history to maximize the value of your businesses along the way? One best thing.
Matt:
My team brings the right people on and looks after them and they will drive value beyond anything else that you’re doing for your organization.
Joanna:
Love it. Very last question here. What’s your one biggest learning?
Matt:
Surround yourself with amazing people I’ve always said we have an average of the seven people we spend the most amount of time with whether it’s an amazing accountant, amazing lawyer, great team member a great partner in life. All those people that you surround yourself with will set you up for success or failure. Make sure that they’re challenging everything that you think you know, you don’t have people that are yes, men all around you and people that push your buttons that sometimes make you feel uncomfortable. My partner is really good at that challenging way I think if you have people like that in your life, then you will absolutely succeed because your average will continue to lift.
Joanna:
Brilliant love it.
Joanna:
Matt, That look was just absolutely outstanding. That was just fabulous. I so enjoyed this discussion with you. We got multiple episodes. Do you know what we’ve got to come back and do more we want to talk about lease negotiation? How do you know, I’m really interested in some of your experiences with some lawyers that didn’t work for you along the way as well. But anyway, so many things to talk about in the future, but just like a huge congratulations for that fabulous history that you’ve got like what an interesting history over the decades for the many businesses you’ve been ingrown, exited. And the beautiful, amazing BX that you’re building right now. Massive Thank you.
Matt:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’ve had fun.
Joanna:
Wonderful, thanks.
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Disclaimer: The material contained on this website is provided for general information purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. You should not depend upon any information appearing on this website without seeking legal advice. We do not guarantee that the contents of this website will be accurate, complete or up-to-date. Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards Legislation.
