[EP 304] The Exit Playbook: How to Sell Without Regret – Part 2

[0:00] Introduction
Ladies and gentlemen, good evening. Are you ready? Okay, here we go. You’re listening to The Deal Room Podcast. Join us as we bring you the inside scoop on business sales and acquisitions. Get across trends in the area and hear the industry’s best recount their real life tips, traps, and experiences. Now, here’s your host, Joanna Oakey.

[0:24] Joanna Oakey
Hi, it’s Joanna Oakey and welcome back to The Deal Room Podcast, a podcast proudly brought to you by our commercial legal practice, Aspect Legal.

[0:33] Joanna Oakey
Now, in this episode—

[0:35] Joanna Oakey
I am continuing the conversation with LINK’s 2024 top three business brokers, Sally Stuart, Nouha Mohtadi, and Sabrina Xia, as we unpack the inner game of business broking success and what it means to lead with strength, empathy, and intention. Now, in this episode, we explore the cultural shift that is happening in business broking and how initiatives like Women in Business Broking is at the heart of it. Why imposter syndrome, resilience and self-reflection are part of the journey, not signs of weakness. And the legacy these women are creating and the game-changing advice they offer the next generation of brokers. So grab your earbuds and a coffee or a wine, no judgment here, and settle in for a conversation that’s equal parts inspiring, practical, and refreshingly real.

[1:30] Joanna Oakey
Do I ask.

[1:31] Joanna Oakey
Have any of you, I think one thing I have seen come up in many discussions I’ve had, both with women and men, but I have to be honest, more with women than men in this industry, being more generally in business is this imposter monster, the self-doubt imposter syndrome. And as I say, I’ve definitely had these discussions with men. It’s just that it comes up more with women for some reason. Have any of you suffered feelings of self-doubt imposter syndrome? And if so, how did you deal with it?

[2:11] Sally Stuart
I’d say no.

[2:13] Joanna Oakey
No? Okay. Okay. I love that. Not at all.

[2:18] Sabrina Xia
Don’t be overly confident.

[2:22] Nouha Mohtadi
Yeah, I have when I became the business broker, but I think that might be in my past, before, I might have the kind of the self-doubt, especially sometimes you have the life, it doesn’t go the way you want to be. You try to say, oh, is this something I’m not good enough? I’m not bad for that. But when you become aware, I have my own business, I have nothing to think about. I have no energy to think about. I’m a doubt of myself because you’re being full on. Every goal is being focused. So when you’re very focused, what do you do? Sometimes take the steps going to successful. It takes a longer time. I think that especially for the broker, be a broker. I think to win the awards, it takes years and years. I’m never expecting after 12 months I can win the awards. I’m never thinking about it. It takes a longer time. I think we just need to do it. For me, it’s persistence. Resilience is very important for the character to be successful as a business. Yeah.

[3:36] Joanna Oakey
And I just add to that. I agree resilience is important, is an important success factor. But the one thing that I want to add is, interesting, I’ve read and listened to and watched quite a few things recently about this concept of the imposter syndrome and self-doubt. And it’s fantastic to hear such strong women here. But I was listening to something with Jacinda Ardern.

[4:07] Joanna Oakey
And I was also at an event with Julie Gillard yesterday, or was it the day before? And these are women who have made massive marks in history of being women who have pushed through the barriers to become the first prime ministers in each of those countries. And actually, just yesterday, I was listening to another recent female in another country in Europe. And all three of them called out, called this out, this imposter syndrome, this self-doubt as one of the key things that they wanted to shine a light on. And so fantastic that it’s not been a thing, an element for the three of you, but I have to say it is truly an element that exists. And certainly the conversations I have, there is a lot of self-doubt out there for women. I 100% agree for men as well, but I see it more with women and strong women who are achieving massive things.

[5:10] Joanna Oakey
And part of the thing that I think sometimes what happens is that women feel they can’t be vulnerable in

[5:20] Joanna Oakey
industries that are male dominated because the vulnerability has such, there’s a feel that vulnerability has femininity attached to it and perhaps shows weakness. And I guess like my call out, and I’ve been reflecting on this question a bit, actually, my call out is you don’t have to be this feel like you have the answers always. You don’t have. Self-doubt is actually or can be a critical component and of challenging yourself and pushing yourself through barriers that you never thought were possible. Does that make sense? I really think it’s important to have discussions to help bring light to the fact that self-doubt isn’t, isn’t,

[6:12] Joanna Oakey
And vulnerability isn’t a negative component of being a female in a male-dominated industry. And so anyway, that’s, that was behind my question. And just interesting, I think, for all of us to reflect on over time, because we don’t have to be the strongest person in the room to be a successful female. Does that make sense? We can be vulnerable. And I’ve certainly seen many points in my career and felt that I shouldn’t be vulnerable and that you shouldn’t display vulnerability because that’s…

[6:51] Joanna Oakey
I operate in a male-dominant environment too, you know, just like you all do. And I really love the challenge to that thinking. Anyway, so, yeah, sorry, Sabrina.

[7:06] Sabrina Xia
When you mentioned the self-doubt, I think the other word is the self-reflection. That’s what we actually usually do, you know, what we can improve because somehow we will facing the deal, like the deal failure or doesn’t move in certain things. For our female broker, we don’t want to confront some challenges and difficulties. We want to harmonize the reactions instead of having some argument or things with the other things, aggression. We also want to be gentle and softened to get the results. So that’s our intention. But sometimes, as you said, in certain words, they’re not being received in the way being resolved the issues. And you do need to using the firm and the force to, but this is not our nature. Our nature is using the force to resolve. Our nature is going to the peaceful and win-win situation for everyone. So I think that instead of the self-doubt that we do every year or every time, every deals, we do the self-reflection ourselves. What did you learn? Yeah, what did you learn?

[8:29] Sabrina Xia
What did you learn?

[8:30] Joanna Oakey
I think the words both Jacinda and Julia used were, the context was both of them stepping into leadership. There’s this suddenly, very, very quickly, this opportunity for leadership happens and needing to step up. And for all of us, that opportunity in life or that challenge that is something massive to step into might, is obviously something very different to stepping into the leadership between politics and being prime minister. But it is that momentary thing here is a massive challenge, something that I have the opportunity of and then that immediate thought, am I capable of this? Am I worthy of this? Can I do this? And I think it’s just meeting the truth of that. But also in doing that, I guess we’re able to push ourselves through barriers maybe we never even thought we could push ourselves through.

[9:29] Joanna Oakey
But anyway, I don’t want to turn it all into that. I just thought it’s really interesting. It’s interesting things to reflect on. So one thing I guess I would ask, do you think the culture of business broking in Australia is shifting? We’ve all been in this industry for quite a few years now. I think there have been many shifts. Certainly there’s many practical shifts? Has the culture, have there been cultural shifts? What to each of you think about that?

[9:58] Sally Stuart
I think it used to be reliant on the agency and the database of the agency. It’s shifted quite a lot. AI, digital marketing has, I think, shifted the focus more on the broker than the agency over the years. I think that’s been what I have recognized as the biggest shift. I think there’s going to be less emphasis on agencies and more emphasis on digital marketing going forward.

[10:31] Sabrina Xia
I think our industry is becoming a lot more professional. I think that there’s less cowboys. I think it’s a lot more structured. We’re a lot more trained. We’re a lot more educated.

[10:43] Joanna Oakey
Yeah, I agree. That’s a fantastic thing, isn’t it? I think fantastic. Sorry, Sabrina.

[10:49] Nouha Mohtadi
I always want to say the profession is actually moving forward at the moment. I can see it. Before, that’s always the images of the business, the broker. You can think about what’s the traditional, typical, the business, the broker, the images in everyone’s head. And I think that now is a complete difference. And we attract to a lot of talent also coming to the brokerage industry as well. A lot of senior people, a lot of CFO, a lot of CEO coming to want to be a business broker into their next career. That we see the shift. We also see the shift become male-dominated, slowly have more women come in and do more balance. That’s how we see it, and more colorful, more interesting, more bad, and supporting each other.

[11:50] Sally Stuart
With the professionalism comes better delivery of information, more sophisticated information memorandums, websites, financials, asset lists within language is far more sophisticated and thus there’s more of a successful outcome.

[12:11] Nouha Mohtadi
Also changing is that before the business broker always the stake are for both small business, hospitality business. But now you can see the industry is the more diversified and also shows of the business that also increase as well.

[12:28] Sabrina Xia
Definitely.

[12:30] Nouha Mohtadi
And so two more questions.

[12:33] Joanna Oakey
Two more questions. The second last one is if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing in the industry to better support women, what would it be?

[12:43] Sally Stuart
More directors, more owners that are women,

[12:46] Joanna Oakey
More women run agents. More owners that are women. I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

[12:52] Nouha Mohtadi
Sabrina? First, I would say WIBB. For instance, and they’re driving more women into a journey. They’re broke.

[13:04] Joanna Oakey
That every woman in the industry was part of WIBB. It’s keen to support each other. I love that, Sabrina. Thank you. Sal, have it.

[13:13] Sally Stuart
No, I don’t think. I don’t feel marginalized at all. I agree. Yes, we’re in this. No, but. I think we’re getting there. We’re changing. It’s happening. We’re seeing lady business owners. We spoke to a team yesterday. They had just recruited four lady business owners and she was on the lookout for a male. So there were six ladies in her company, no men.

[13:37] Joanna Oakey
But things are actually changing.

[13:39] Sally Stuart
Yeah.

[13:40] Sabrina Xia
That’s good to hear.

[13:41] Nouha Mohtadi
If you’re looking like a part, all the leading, the more women are successful, that will inspire a lot of women coming to these industries. And they just speak it to self or we don’t need to promote it. The action is a speak itself.

[13:58] Joanna Oakey
Okay, so very last question. And you can take this either way that you want. I’ll give you two directions you can take this question. Now that you are paving the way, I mean, you’re paving the way as first. This is a first. We’ve talked about this. The first time we’ve had three women in first,

[14:16] Joanna Oakey
second and third in LINK Australian National Awards. So obviously this is a first you’re paving the way women and as business brokers but what legacy would you hope to leave for the next generation and you can take the next generation of women in business broking or the next generation of business brokers as a whole.

[14:38] Sally Stuart
For me in my office doing conjunctions working with other people so when I first joined no one did anything together no one conjuncted no one helped each other out a lot of my sales are conjunctionals and I’m always happy to work with people from any of the other offices or even people outside our firm to get a deal done and I think finding a solution and being creative to find a solution to help the vendor to sell so we’re committed to affording the vendor and if That means you take a cut on your comms, so be it, because once you start, it rolls like a snowball and gets bigger and bigger. So I did my most conjunctions ever in year 10 of being a business broker. But that would be my legacy for the Sydney office, and that’s having people conjunct with each other and work together. No one did that before I came on.

[15:31] Joanna Oakey
Love that, Sal. We’re on Sabrina’s.

[15:35] Nouha Mohtadi
I think that the other thing that’s very important is the mentoring. The mentoring. So I’ve been successful when I joined. And I think the one of the mentors I still remember is Max Kerr from the AIBB, the senior brokers. I was very emotional the first time, birthday, to join the link. And I’m meeting with him. And I remember the world of the world because I almost very emotional to see him. I think the way I feel myself is emotion. That means I might be into the right career path. And he was mentioned to me, Sabrina, don’t be an average broker. Be extraordinary brokers. So I still remember. So if I’m meeting someone, I said that you need to be an extraordinary broker. So you need to set up your standard high, then you can be successful. And then you will use that standard to deal with your vendor, your buyer. That’s very important for us as the business brokers. Any gender, not just the female, but also male, broke out as well.

[16:51] Joanna Oakey
And no.

[16:53] Sabrina Xia
It’s certainly a challenging industry. You need to have skin of a crocodile and the patience of a saint. You really do.

[17:00] Sally Stuart
You really do.

[17:01] Sabrina Xia
Because you’re dealing with lawyers, accountants, landlords, but there’s a circus of professionals that you’re dealing with and each has their own agenda. So you’re the person that’s tying the glue together.

[17:15] Nouha Mohtadi
And I would say as a legacy.

[17:17] Sabrina Xia
For women in business, I think champion each other, support each other, mentor each other, lift each other up. I think that’s really important in order to cope with the hardship of being a business broker. And even luck could cope. Most certainly keep those conversations going and support each other and that will make it easier.

[17:38] Joanna Oakey
I love it. That’s a great way for us to end. Yeah, sorry, Sam.

[17:42] Sally Stuart
We’ve all done that.

[17:44] Sabrina Xia
Absolutely. Absolutely.

[17:46] Sally Stuart
Tell that we’re supporting each other the whole time.

[17:50] Sabrina Xia
Be your best at all times and support each other.

[17:53] Joanna Oakey
Yeah. And maybe therein lies one of the secrets of the success of the National Awards.

[18:01] Joanna Oakey
I just love it. Such a great conversation. Of course, Women in Business Broking is all about exactly that, trying to just create a supportive environment so anyway we’ll put a link in our show notes because we’d love any women business brokers who aren’t already involved to come along and anyone who’s thinking about the industry come along too can I please just say a huge thank you Sally, Sabrina and Nouha for coming on today it was an absolute pleasure talking to you all and picking your brains right there’s some gems in there thank you thank.

[18:36] All
Thank you.

[18:38] Joanna Oakey
Well, that’s it for this episode of The Deal Room Podcast. We hope you’re now primed for your next deal with these pointers and have enjoyed these fascinating insights. Now, if you’d like more information about this topic, then head over to our website at thedealroompodcast.com, where you’ll be able to download a transcript of this episode, as well as access any contact details and any other additional information we referred to in today’s podcast.

[19:06] Joanna Oakey
Now, if you’d like to get in contact with our guests today and the services they offer, you can go ahead and check out our show notes for a link right through to them and their details. You can also book in directly with our Legal Eagles at Aspect Legal. If you’d like to soundboard your next steps, discuss a legal question, or find out more how we can assist, whether that’s with buying or selling a business, or perhaps somewhere in between. Now, don’t forget to subscribe to The Deal Room Podcast on your favorite podcast player to get notifications whenever a new episode is out. We’d also love to hear your feedback, so please leave us a review and rating if you’re already one of our subscribers or even if you’re listening to this podcast for the very first time. Every review helps our team produce valuable content for you. Well, thanks again for listening in. You’ve been listening to Joanna Oakey and The Deal Room Podcast, a podcast proudly brought to you by our commercial legal practice, Aspect Legal. See you next time.