[EP 122] The People Project – maximise the value of your most valuable asset

In today’s episode, Tony Arena, Managing Director of BCI Business brokers shares with us his insight on what the most valuable asset is in a business. This is the hidden value of the people which you  which we can never see reflected in the balance sheet. Tony is no novice in this game with over 30 years of experience in the business sale and acquisition industry, he has also written the much acclaimed “MAXIMISE THE VALUE OF YOUR BUSINESS” which outlines a step by step recipe for success in small business, specifically in business growth and sale. 

We start the discussion with the hidden value of ‘people’ in business sales and acquisition and the issues that can arise if we don’t take the time to understand their value. Joanna and Tony then take us through the steps that sellers can do to keep the human factor in their business and share what buyers can do to give themselves the best shot at locking in the value of people. Tony goes on to discuss “What people might do when their job is taken over by a machine?” considering artificial intelligence is on the way and concludes with tips on how to provide the best meaning to your team.

Transcript below!

Note: This has been automatically transcribed so will be full of errors! We are not providing it to you as a word-perfect version of the podcast but just as an easy way to provide you with a different way to be able to see or scan what kind of information that might be relevant to you if you are the kind of person that likes a transcript.

Joanna: Hi, it’s Joanna Oakey here and welcome back to The Deal Room Podcast. A podcast proudly brought to by our commercial legal practice Aspect Legal. Now, today, we are talking with a Tony Arena who has been on our show a couple of times now. Tony is from BCI Business Brokers and today, we’re talking about a business’s most valuable asset, or be it not reflected on the balance sheet and that is its people. Before we get into it, I’ll give you a brief snapshot of who Tony is and his background. As I said, he’s the managing director of BCI Business Brokers and Tony is no spring chicken to this game. He’s got over 30 years experience in the business sale & acquisition industry and has personally sold and supervised the sale of over one thousand businesses. He’s delivered numerous business valuation courses for TAFE, The Australian Property Institute, The Real Estate Institute of New South Wales and the Australian Institute of Business Brokers, as well as for thousands of accountants, solicitors and advisors throughout Australia. He’s also written the much-acclaimed manual entitled “Maximise the Value of Your Business”. So of course, he is the perfect person to talk today all about the value in a business of staff and some tips, tricks and traps in dealing with staffing issues in leading into a sale by a seller or by a buyer. So without further ado, here’s Tony.

Fabulous. Tony, thank you so much for joining us again on The Deal Room Podcast.

Tony: Pleasure to be here, Joanna.

Joanna: Fabulous. Good, good, good. Okay. So today, of course, we talking about businesses most valuable asset, its people. And I guess let’s kick off with how is this relevant? Do you see in this area of business sales and acquisitions? What is this concept of the asset value of people come into play most often?

The hidden value of people assets in this area of business sales and acquisitions

 

Tony: Number one, it will never appear on a balance sheet. So it’s the hidden value. I can open up a book that was written probably back in the 1920s, and it says the value of a business is the value of its equipment. There was no value in goodwill, no value in data, well there wasn’t even databases. If they were, they were written down on a piece of paper or a piece of cardboard. So over time, in that 100 odd years, we’ve seen value shift in businesses from the hard assets to the soft assets. We’re in the service economy. We don’t make many things anymore. You don’t want equipment at rusts away. You don’t want stock. It just gets out of date. So the big game today is understanding the value of the soft assets if you like, or the people assets in a business. And if at my first meeting with a potential client, with a buyer or seller, that’s what I’m digging down to find out what’s happening in the people’s side of the business.

Joanna: It’s such a good point because, you know, I guess from a valuation perspective, of course, we always look EBIT or EBITDA and there’s no real calculation there for people other than the cost base that they’re driving in the business and the returns.

And generally, from a legal perspective or from a sale perspective, we look at it from a legal perspective of, okay, well, you know, other staff locked in for any period of time, can they leave and take clients? But this concept of the value that staff brings, I think absolutely right that it is very often not considered or not heavily discussed in terms of the value of the business as a whole.

Tony: Yeah, because quite often and with all due respect of accountants, but accountants role is to understand the figures get to the bottom of the figures, look at maintainability of income, work at some multiple. But some people got hit so often in the figures that they not lift their head up and look at the people assets in a business. And if you ignore them, you’re going to ignore them to your peril. For example, if you look at the typical Start-Up role today, as someone starts up a business, we all know that there is a great failure rate in start-ups, unfortunately, but if one actually gets to success and the founder can attract an investor, the major question for the investor is how am I going to get on with this founder?

Joanna: Yeah.

Tony: And more often than not, the founders are going to exit the business and as a professional investor comes in. Because you have two people with different skill sets. You have the investor that probably can grow the business and you have the founder who is still operating in the mindset of starting up the business. I think there’s a book out there called “What Got You Here Won’t Necessarily Get You There”. So the whole dynamic of the growth of that business changes once two different personalities come into it. And you also see it when you’ve got a successful business where an owner wants to appoint a general manager. So he’s the person that’s had total control over the business income, now that can often work fabulously well, it can often work disastrously because the owner won’t let go, that the CEO wants to entrench his position so he wants to grab a bit of the power. And it can all go pear-shaped unless they have a proper plan in a situation like that. The obvious answer is to have a coach that stands between the two.

Joanna: That’s I mean, that’s a really sensible point because, you know, many businesses who have the foresight to prep properly heading into a sale will put themselves in a position where they’re removing themselves from the position by integrating someone like a general manager into the business who can pass over with the business.

But I guess, as you rightly say, that can be the point where issues occur exactly when you don’t want issues to occur in a business because you’re trying to prime it for sale and you’re trying to get the highest performance out of the business so that you can get the highest value at sale. So before we get into some strategies, let’s just dive a little bit deeper into this issue. Let’s just talk about a few examples where this concept of not valuing and not understanding the value of the staff sufficiently has created issues in a business sale or acquisition environment. So what are examples that you’ve seen in this area, Tony?

The issues created when you don’t understand the value of staff

 

Tony: So I’ve looked over 30 years, I suppose I’ve just picked a few, but I’m actually selling a business at the moment and the owner’s job, he’s got a great life with his business. He’s getting into an age where you might think time to retire, but he could hang a man in this business for as long as he wants. His main role is to be the glue in that business so he doesn’t have an operational role. But as he tells me, he arrives there. He knows everything about all those people. He knows the kids birthdays, how many grandkids they’ve got, where they live, what their issues are even maybe. And I’ll come back to that, the issues that some of your staff might have. But he proudly tells me that that’s his role. Now, that’s an easy business to sell. You know, he does have any contact. So what we’re trying to do with owners is get them out of the business and almost make them redundant. No contact with clients. But this contact with staff is important. Now, that could be delegated to a general manager, probably even better if the general manager who you’re inheriting with the business has this relationship with the staff. Because what you don’t need is the staff walking out after you buy the business. And I can give you an example again of a negotiation where just between exchange and settlement, the key person in the business said, I want another 30 grand.

Joanna: It’s funny that you mention that because I’ve seen that in a couple of thousand acquisitions in the last 12 months. That exact situation happened as well and each time it happens. And in fact, in the instances that I’ve seen it happen just before exchange of contracts, which is a terrible time for it to happen, and which if staff are aware of what’s going on, you know, some staff might use it to their advantage as well to try and…

Tony: Use that sale as leverage.

Joanna: Exactly and that’s a really dangerous situation to be in, because then either your sale is in jeopardy or the price is in jeopardy or you’re going to have to cave to demands that are being made on you. So tell us a bit more about your example, Tony.

Issues that can arise when you don’t understand the value of staff

 

Tony: Well, in that case, obviously, the PNL was gonna cave in by 30 grand. So there’s 100 grand in value gone. If you’re working on the three times multiple but what that highlights is not a staff member that was underpaid, but a staff member that wasn’t happy because why would a staff member try that? At the time of exchange and settlement or in between exchange and settlement, so there’s another clear case of an owner of a business not been in contact or been out of date or whatever it might be. Maybe the staff member has been underpaid, but certainly not in touch with what’s going on in that key staff members life. To me as a business broker, as I’ve said, when I’m sitting down with people, all the questions I’ve got around this issue of transferability, we’re talking about transferability so in valuing a business, I look at transferability, maintainability of income and profitability, those three abilities. And one of transferability I think is about 70 % of the importance of those three. The other two are important, but certainly maintainability, but transferability a buyer sitting opposite me wants to know how is this business going to go under my control? not the current owner, because he’s exiting. And when we’re valuing businesses, that’s a prime consideration as well. Know how important is this owner? I say a good test of leadership is to try and ensure that you make yourself redundant. I think Edward de Bono said if you make yourself redundant in a business, you should receive your wages for life. So that that whole thing of redundancy and if you start to achieve this in a business, keep going. Keep going. Two points. Number one, your business is more saleable. Secondly, you’re not under pressure to sell.

Joanna: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

What to look for when valuing a business

 

Tony: I can give you another example, Joanna, of a sale falling over by virtue of an owner not understanding what’s going on with their business. This was in a franchise situation and under due diligence, the buyer started ringing franchisees and there was a revolt or a mini-revolt on. The important thing in a franchise system, as a franchisor it is important to know that the income is going to be ongoing and one franchisee already pulled out. The second one was terribly unhappy. Now, in any franchise system where you have maybe 60 franchisees, there’s always going to be unhappy people. It’s never 100% happy, even in the strongest of franchise systems. But if you have a few major franchisees that just coincidentally about the time of the acquisition are thinking of exiting the franchisor has got a major problem because to take over a franchise system as a franchisor is tough enough without having a revolt on your hands. And that sale just didn’t go ahead.

Joanna: Wow, and so that was the buyer who unearths this issue was it? rather than..

Tony: Yes, he was given access to franchisees and that’s what the buyer found out.

Joanna: Let’s talk about each of these situations then so let’s start with the first situation.

We were talking about this risk of key staff leaving the business either just before the sale or between exchange and completion or even from a buyer’s perspective, I guess, you know, they’re also concerned about straight after completion as well. What what are the steps that let’s see both in the seller and then in the buyer’s shoes so starting in the seller’s shoes, what are some of the steps that a seller can put in place in advance to try and shore up the human factor in the value of their business?

Steps that sellers can take to keep the human factor of their business

 

Tony: So if it’s a key person, let’s just look at the key person. This could apply to anybody in your business. But the first thing is to make sure they’re paid according to the award. Second is to understand their motivation and how long they want to hang around. For example, Let’s say the owner’s exiting. What about your general manager? Do you think your general manager wants to stay? Now, if that’s a surprise question to you, you’re already at a disadvantage. You want to be able to say, I’ve spoken to my manager and here’s the best part Joanna. He knows the business is for sale. He knows that I’m going to sell him or her as part of the business and they’re happy to stay. Wow, you’ve just won. You’ve just got the gold medal in tying up staff in a business.

If you haven’t had that conversation, I’m afraid you’re just playing Russian roulette. It will be like Oh you want to buy my business? Well, I better talk to my general manager. Well, you’ve just lost the game. I’m afraid you are at the mercy now of the buyer.

Joanna: So number one with absolute communication isn’t it? And it’s interesting that you say that because many sellers are fearful of that sort of discussion because of the concern that they might create instability in the business to the staff, that they are discussing this with but you’re saying and I completely agree with you. I guess this perhaps comes down to understanding the staff as well. Perhaps this potential can change depending on, you know, the personality of the staff that you’re dealing with. But thinking through communication, I think I absolutely agree, is a critical step. So whether it’s a percentage of the purchase price or some sort of bonus or incentive.

Tony: I’ve seen that it’s worked. It depends, again, on the relationship. You can’t buy your loyalty of a staff member that doesn’t like you, I don’t think, although I suppose money talks but I don’t see a lot of that. I just see it mainly as a good, genuine, honest conversation between the owner and the staff member. And to say when this business goes across, I’m gonna tell the buyer how important you out of the business. It may be obvious for all to see. But if a staff member hears that well, then immediately their sense of danger of the transaction is automatically reduced. Now, when you tell one staff member, just be prepared to think that everyone’s gonna know.

Joanna: Yeah, that’s right. I think that’s a good point.

Tony: They huddle around the coffee room but that’s fine because a staff come and go. We don’t say there’s a 100% guarantee that all staff will want to stay with you. But it’s the key infrastructure of the business that we want to try and keep together. And if the person you’ve just told gets and tells a lot of people, but they are calm about it, that that sense of calm should provide the whole staff roster, hopefully.

Joanna: So flipping over, like sitting on the seat of the buyer. What kind of buyer do to give themselves the best shot at locking in these value for an appropriate period of time?

What buyers can do to give themselves the best shot at locking in this value

 

Tony: Yeah, so the buyer’s job is a lot easier if the vendor has already spoken to staff because then the buyer will have access to those staff people. And here’s another risk, I suppose the buyer comes in, says, “Well, I don’t like that general manager didn’t get a really good sense of that conversation”. I suppose you could risk losing a sale. But I don’t often see that happen. I usually see a good transition with an owner for warning staff. What’s going to happen? A buyer comes in, doesn’t upset the staff. Every single buyer should be saying to themselves, as they sign this contract “I’m not gonna change this business in the first 12 months”. Now, if they’re true to that promise to themselves. Well, then people’s jobs should be safe.

Joanna: I think that’s a really good point. And in fact, it very interestingly, I had a number of episodes, this podcast recently where our guests have shared exactly the same concept of leaving it to sit for twelve months. So clearly, if so many people are saying it, Tony, I think it clearly has a lot of merits.

Tony: You know what I’m acting for a buyer at the moment and we’re buying different businesses in a particular industry and their intention was to convert some of those clients. Now they’re in the business. They realise those clients are so profitable, just let them straight where they are and look at converting people that there is a relationship with, but they’re not currently clients or there’s a telephone number that they can use and then use approach those people to try and add to the business, but not interrupt the status quo. So there’s people who with a certain view of how the business is gonna work after transition. Changing that view. And I think that buyers have to maintain that flexibility. And be prepared to change and midcourse according to what they form when they buy the business. No one absolutely knows. You know, McDonald’s puts franchisees through, I believe, nine months of training before they approve them. Before they get to work in shops. It’s absolutely the highest level of training that I’ve seen in any franchise network and maybe that’s different today, but it’s certainly the way they did do it, even they can’t guarantee that franchisee is gonna succeed. So the people test is fine, but you know how to really test to put the person in the job.

The staff element and how it is dealt with

 

Joanna: I have seen the approach of buyers coming in and treating new staff like an employment process, so running staff through, you know, one to one interviews to get to know them and running personality profiles and doing all of this work on diving into who the staff are and how they operate. So and from my perspective, I mean, in those situations, I’ve seen, you know, enormous success out of that in a transition period that maybe if you can talk about some things that you’ve seen done, perhaps that were standout performances in terms of how you’ve seen the staff element dealt with either from the buyer or seller side.

Tony: Yeah. Look, I think from a buyer’s point of view, one of the best transitions I saw was a fellow who I think he bought a foundry. And there were two aspects. There were two choices. And in fact, he did get down both parts. He went to the personality testing but he put that aside and then just sat down one on one with a staff member to try and understand, as I’ve suggested a seller should do with each of the staff, for each of their key staff, so that they can properly inform a buyer of what their roster looks like and where they selected to be.

And that buyer did wonderfully well in the acquisition of that business. I remember asking a professional footballer once who was the best coach that you ever had. And he told me it was Wayne Bennett, because Wayne Bennett actually sat down and made you feel as though you were an important part of the team. He wanted to understand you as an individual. Now, if you’ve got a coach up there, say let’s take it straight across to the business analogy here. If you have a business owner that gets everyone in a room and says, “Okay, we’re going to test you all, then we’re going to find your best abilities and we’re gonna increase your wages by 10%” but not sit down individually with each of those people. You’re gonna feel like you’re being talked at. And that’s the last thing you need people to walk out of that room and saying “Well, that was a lot of B.S., wasn’t it? I don’t know where we’re going to be in this business”. So the one on one, if people listening to this interview take nothing else away, just remember that the one on one takes more time. It’s probably got more risk. Yeah. As far as each of the parties to the conversation goes, but the rewards are much greater than try to treat everybody with the same approach.

Joanna: And from the buyer’s perspective and of course the whole theme of the episode today is talking about the value that sits in staff but I think from a buyer’s perspective, recognizing that value by spending that time, you know, whether it’s them or the ultimate managers if they’re bringing in new managers for teams, but spending that time upfront will pay off massively in terms of dividends in smoothing the transition. I think that’s an important message to pass on that, you know, this needs to be added to your checklist. You need to be spending time in this area and the people side.

Tony: Joanna, we’re living in 2020 and we need 20/20 vision. Here’s 20/20 vision for you. In 1920, life was a lot more simple. We came in in many cases we just operated the machine. We went home. We were happy, unhappy. No one really asks that question. Today, we’re living in a world where two in four people will have a mental health issue this year right across the board. There’s solid statistics to say that 75% of people either hate or aren’t engaged in their job. So just let those statistics sink in a little bit.

Joanna: Can you say that again?

Tony: 75% of people are rather not engaged or hate their job. In fact, it’s probably 80% because 20%of people love their job and the other two categories left are hate and not that interested, while another majority is probably about 60% think that okay, it’s a job but I just go there for the money.

Joanna: That’s outrageous.

Artificial intelligence is on the way, what will your people be doing when their job is taken by a machine?

 

Tony: Whereas the ideal employee should be saying at the end of the day “It really felt as though I contributed there”. Now, here’s the rub, if this podcast was being played in 2030, we would have arrived at the position where artificial intelligence basically and computers are running the show. At the moment they’re running a good part of the show but there’s gonna be an explosion in computers actually doing that job. What’s left for the people? So here’s what’s left of the people. I still need to work with the machine and the machine won’t totally take over.

So the hybrid model is widely mooted by people to the one that will be the most successful. So I was doing the thinking in my machine because doctors in no way a doctor can come up with the answers that the machine can and robots are taking over in operating theatres. So even the most skilled people have been pushed aside. What will those people’s role be? A manager or an owner of a business like that has to say that the challenge is really on their neck. What? How do I treat people like this? How do I provide meaning in their work? The money will flow because the machines are going to save so much money. But that will be that. That will be the serious question. And if you if I go back to the stat of two in four people this year will have a mental health issue across the board. If you sit down with someone and provide the opportunity for that person to talk about what’s going on and you uncover that there’s an issue either inside or outside the business and you partly successful or totally successful in turning that around. What sort of employee do you have now? You have an employee that appreciates your respecting that I spend most of their time at work.

Well either at work or on the train or bus going to work and we get home, turn the television on, turn on the computer, go to sleep, get up, get ready for go to work, go to work. So work is such a big part of our existence these days, probably bigger than any time in our history. So if you, my employer, sit down, actually want to find out what’s going on in my life, I’m going to stick with you. You’re going to have massive loyalty. What’s more, my productivity is going to go up by 30 or 40%. That’s the challenge for business owners and managers these days to get the best out of their current staff.

Providing meaning to your team

 

Joanna: And if I can take you back like you said, that one of the important elements is considering how we provide meaning in work by our teams. What some ideas here of how you can help provide meaning?

Tony: OK. So here’s a way of providing meeting, “Joanna. I’d like to sit down with you today. You know, I’ve got an issue in the company. Do you have any ideas of how I can solve that?” and you say “Oh Boss, I never thought you’d ask me. I think X, Y and Z” so I say “Hey, you know what? Would you like to develop that, Joanna, and put it on a page to me?”. I speak to a lot of young people. I have four daughters, the age of 30 to roughly 40. Unless you won’t be happy about me saying that. So let’s say 39.

And they’re all in workplaces and they have partners and friends. And the Christmas I’ll often ask is how much meaning is there? In your work? Do you feel valued? And that’s a pretty simple answer. That’s one of the simplest answers to give. It’s often the hardest to rectify. But if you’re not even trying here’s how not to do it. I arrive at work. Someone says there’s a computer, there’s that list of people you’ve got to ring or that’s the work you’ve got to accomplish today. And I don’t getting any involvement in that process other than doing what someone else told me to do. That’s how not to do it. How to do it is to try and mind the incredible experience of young people today. Mind it, develop it and appreciate it. Bring it out and implement it. Now how do you feel about it? You’re 27 at work and your bosses said, “Sit down. I want your help”. Now, I am valued, there’s no other way. Money? Forget it. When I put the list up of what people want in their work, money’s up there. But meaning is number one.

Joanna: I love this discussion, Tony. I think it’s a really important one. It’s interesting. And I guess obviously initially we were talking about this element in relation to the value of the business and how to deal with it at sale and at acquisition if you’re on the buyer side, we seem to have gone even deeper and dovetailed into…

Tony: We’ve almost changed the topic, I think Joanna.

Joanna: But I love it. I really love it and of course, this is not just something relevant to people at sale or at acquisition. It’s relevant for all business owners.

Tony: Let me leave you with this point so to jump over the top. But some people might think this good plug for a business broker but..

Joanna: Go for it!

Tony: Quite often I’ll meet someone. And they’re so tired. They’re so over it. They hate the business where they’re suffering financial stress or whatever. And they are saying, look, would you just hang on for another year? The answer’s no. Would you be prepared to stay there and work with the new owner? The is generally no. So any advice? Here’s my advice to people who may not think they want to sell. Think about the prospect of getting someone in to help you. That might be an equity partner. But that’s what I’m talking about. Getting someone in earlier than you thought that can help you develop the business may be by half now, maybe develop it and by the time you sell the other half, it could be worth twice as much as the first half. You got paid for that. Don’t leave it till the last minute. Number one, don’t leave improving your business till the last minute. Don’t start thinking about these issues only when you ring the broker or your accountant to get your final figures. Start thinking about this issue now. When will be a good time to sell? And maybe earlier is better?

Joanna: I think absolutely right now. And I guess the other warning here is in this prep for sale, as you go through the advice of removing yourself from the business and implementing a general manager or someone who pass over on the management side with the business. Also, don’t think that just by engaging someone in that role, that that’s job done and it will work smoothly because you need to make sure you properly manage and get invested in the general manager if that’s who you’re hiring you to ensure that you’re maximizing the value of them and the team under them for the sale and not creating potential issues right at the point of sale.

Tony: If you’re thinking of general manager, think five years out. Because number one is going to take a hit. Someone will be coming in to do the work that you are currently doing so unless that might be selling or it could be managing so there’s a training period. The business is going to suffer a financial loss when you put a general manager on, but believe me, the businesses I sell of high value have all got one.

Joanna: And can you give us a bit of a snapshot here you know, is there a rough increase in multiple that you can attribute to having a general manager that will pass over or management that will pass over vs. not?

Tony: But this depends on the popularity of particular businesses at a particular time so there are going to be some businesses that..take a real estate agency, for example, which could be sold on a multiple of its top-line profits. The property management side is going to help you get that maybe half a multiple profit out of it, extra if you have a well-qualified property manager in place. Where a business is sold on a rule of thumb, probably less relevant. Maybe this half multiple, I’m talking about that a bigger business which denotes a business that maybe can put on a general manager. One to two multiples. That’s pretty decent if you think about it.

Joanna: It is like that’s that really is quite a large amount and, you know, remembering obviously we’re looking at this value at sale as well, it’s generally also a very tax-efficient way of getting that money out of your business rather than the profit each year as well. Right?

Tony: Yeah, well, there are tax breaks on selling a business capital gains tax, which I’m sure you’ve heard many experts talking about.

Joanna: Fabulous. Okay. Well, look, Tony, this was a really good discussion. I think it’s a really critical area and I think it’s great that this is something that you’re working through with your clients and helping them to assess in terms of recognizing the value that sits there in their business that maybe they hadn’t really thought about attributing value to in the past.

Tony: Yeah. Look, I hope it helps someone. We saw a major franchisor again many years ago now and the people that come to us from a couple of different directions, husband or wife sat down on us, and she said to the wife said, “You don’t remember, but you gave us a talk on maximising the value of your business at a particular exhibition within our industry”. I said, “OK, good. That means you followed all those things and your business is gonna be worth a packet”. Ironically, she had the best systems.

Joanna: Really? Well, there you go.

Tony: You have to be systematic. Unless you’re going to have an overnight makeover. She was good to start but she had just done this five-year plan. Everything was right. All the systems, all the staff in place. And she was some wonderfully rewarded. So the message “Start working early”.

Joanna: Yeah. I think that’s a really good message in the end. And as you say, perhaps that also saves an owner from coming into a sale and being absolutely dependent on that sale happening as quickly as possible so that they can get out because it’s causing them pain. Obviously the model that you’re talking about. It’s a model that is you giving the owner the opportunity to sort of have a slow exit from the business whilst they still own it.

Tony: Yeah. Look, if any of your listeners are interested in sitting down with me to discuss these issues and not take all day, but I’m happy to offer a free consultation to business owners with who are sort of facing these issues. I’m happy to sit down with them or offer or a phone call.

Joanna: Brilliant. OK. So, of course, if you are rocking along the beach you may not have a pen at the ready to write down Tony’s details, so we will put all of his details in the show notes but Tony, for those people who have got their pen in hand right now, how can they find you?.

Tony: bcibusinessbrokers.com.au – I’m on Twitter as @tonyarena, my telephone number 0411 888 148

Joanna: OK, wonderful. As I said, we’ll put links through to all of that in our show notes. Well, Tony, thank you once again for joining us on the dealer and podcast. I really enjoyed it today.

Tony: I hope people are getting plenty of good deals after this.

Joanna: Fabulous. Wonderful. Well, look you have yourself a stellar afternoon.

Tony: And same to you, Joanna.

Joanna: Well, that’s it for this episode of The Deal Room Podcast. If you’d like more information about this topic or if you’d like to get the details of Tony Arena, then all you have to do is head over to our website at thedealroompodcast.com or check out the show notes. We’ll link through to everything in those show notes. There you’ll also be able to find details of how to contact our lawyers at Aspect Legal if you or your clients would like to discuss any legal aspects of sales or acquisitions. And well, that wraps up our show again for today. Don’t forget to tune in next week for our next episode. And until then, have a fabulous week. Thanks again for listening in. You’ve been listening to Joanna Oakey and The Deal Room Podcast, a podcast proudly brought to you by our commercial legal practice aspect legal. See you next time.

Connect with Tony Arena:

• BCI Business Brokers Website
• Value a Business Website
• BCI Business Brokers on Facebook
• Tony Arena on Twitter
• Tony Arena on Linkedin

Listen to the episode here and leave us a review:

• iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast/the-deal-room/id1267098895

Check out this other episode with Tony Arena:

[EP 114] My $700k walk to the filing cabinet the first time I was sued as a business agent

Our Business Sales and Acquisitions Services

Aspect Legal has a number of great services that help businesses prepare for a sale or acquisition to help them prepare in advance and to get transaction ready. And we’ve also got a range of services to help guide businesses through the sale and acquisitions process.

We work with clients both big and small and have different types of services depending on size and complexity. We provide a free consultation to discuss your proposed sale or acquisition – so see our show notes on how to book a time to speak with us, or head over to our website at Aspectlegal.com.au